The Indian Express | 2 months ago | 27-03-2023 | 11:45 am
CV Ananda Bose on how as Governor of West Bengal he follows the path of conciliation and cooperation, the relevance of his post, and why Indian democracy is still vibrant and buoyant. This session was moderated by Deputy Political Editor Liz MathewLiz Mathew: West Bengal Raj Bhavan has now become a role model for a cordial relationship between the elected government in the state and the governor. How did you do that?I was only a mute witness to the process of evolution that is taking place in the concept of cooperative federalism in the country. In place of confrontation, we should have conciliation. Antipathy should be replaced by empathy. And passion should be tempered with compassion. A middle path is always better for society. The Raj Bhavan should become a no-conflict zone. I’m happy that this concept has been subscribed to by all the enlightened stakeholders of Bengal, including the political setup, the media, the government, the judiciary.Be it a politician or a bureaucrat, their first, second and third duty is to the people. People are supreme. And if anything goes wrong, Indian democracy has a lot of buoyancy and mid-course correction can be doneLiz Mathew: Your father was so fascinated by Subhas Chandra Bose’s ideology that he named you after him. You have also started cultural exchanges between West Bengal and other states, including Kerala. How relevant is it?When cultural cooperation takes place effectively, there is a shared heritage… When politics invades culture, there is chaos. When culture enters politics, there is refinement. People of my generation in Kerala have read Bengali novels. Almost every week, leading journalists would bring out translations of Tarashankar Banerji and other great writers of Bengal. Gurudev Tagore was a household name in Kerala. I remember having fallen in love with Mini (from Rabindranath Tagore’s short story Kabuliwala) at the age of eight. When I was in college, Satyajit Ray, Ritwik Ghatak, Mrinal Sen were our heroes and role models. So that cultural affinity between Bengal and Kerala has always been there. Now, with the cooperation of the government of West Bengal, particularly the Education Minister, we hit upon the idea of a Kerala-Bengal culture corridor. The process has already started. We are inviting artists, writers, painters, dancers from both states for exchange programmes.Liz Mathew: Centre-State relations have recommended that a political person should not be in a constitutional post which calls for impartiality. What is your view?It depends on the attitude and approach of the individuals who occupy these positions. I do not find anything wrong with a political leader occupying a constitutional profession. We have great statesmen who are also good politicians. The bureaucracy is thrice removed from the people. In a democracy, particularly the democratic setup in India, we, the people, gave this Constitution to ourselves. The authorities, including bureaucrats and politicians, get authority to be the dispensers of India’s destiny because the people have given it to them. So be it a politician or a bureaucrat, their first, second and third duty is to the people. People are supreme. And if anything goes wrong, Indian democracy has a lot of buoyancy and that mid-course correction is done.Vandita Mishra: Now that the West Bengal governor’s house is a place of calm, what would you say to other governors in other states, where we have seen a pattern of BJP-appointed governors taking on the opposition-ruled governments so openly?I have neither the inclination nor the competence to deliver value judgments on my counterparts in other states. They all have their own style and each state has its own milieu.Amrith Lal: You were a popular bureaucrat in Kerala and cited people like (Ritwik) Ghatak, (Mrinal) Sen and (Tarashankar) Banerjee as inspirations. So, how did you end up with the BJP?Right from my birth, I was a part of the bharatiya janta. It’s only recently that the ‘party’ element has been added… I belong to all parties.Bengal has led the nation in many spheres… it is all decided by the will of the people… Bengalis have an inner strength. Once they tap into that, no force can prevent Bengal from reaching its destination as a world leaderLiz Mathew: You recently had an issue — the tenure of West Bengal Vice Chancellors (VCs). It was a setback initially but you made it an opportunity. Could you tell us how you resolved that issue?As a Chancellor and Governor, it is my duty to see that a Supreme Court judgment is upheld. There were only two ways open before me. I called the VCs and told them — one was that if the VCs feel that a Supreme Court judgment is binding on all of India, they have the option to resign, but I am not pressing them for that. Otherwise, the other option: termination notice. All of them said, ‘Sir we’re resigning.’ Nobody had any objection. It was a very graceful resignation. I compliment the VCs for their magnanimity. I didn’t have to issue the notice. But the next day, they had no place to go, and I had to run the universities. There is nothing that prevents the Chancellor from requesting the same Vice Chancellor to continue for two-three months in an interim or caretaker arrangement…The government also cooperated. We are glad that the High Court has completely endorsed the position.Liz Mathew: There is an alleged overreach of the judiciary into the executive. How do you see this?Separation of powers is basic to the constitutional democracy that we have adopted in this country: the executive, the legislature and the judiciary. There are defined areas of operation for them… Our democratic system is strong enough to face any eventuality and come up with acceptable solutions.Shubhajit Roy: In terms of the country’s economic improvement and growth trajectory, Bengal has lagged behind other states. What do you think plagues Bengal?Every state has its own ups and downs. Bengal has led the nation in many spheres. It has potential and Bengal will develop it. In a democracy, it is all decided by the will of the people… governments will come and go, but I treat Bengal as a state. Bengalis, as a people, have an inner strength. Once they tap into that, no force can prevent Bengal from reaching its destination as a leader of the nation.Independence of the media is very important and Indian democracy protects that, the Constitution protects that, and the courts are there… there are checks in place… Dissent is the essence of democracyLiz Mathew: What are the challenges before the state?Gopal Krishna Gokhale had said, what Bengal thinks today, India will think tomorrow. Bengal is still capable. There may be many factors which stand in the way. These may be political, economic, or cultural. These factors have to be addressed separately. A comprehensive view is to be taken on how Bengal can go forward, which the political system, particularly the democratic system, will be able to address adequately from time to time.P Vaidyanathan Iyer: There have been a perception of corruption and rising violence, at times related to elections also. What has been your sense in the last four or five months?There will and should be zero tolerance to corruption. Violence has no place in democratic elections. Force is no arbiter. The Constitution is to be upheld. Whenever there is laxity in maintaining law and order, as a constitutional head, the governor will not remain a mute witness. Effective and proactive action will be taken as is mandated by the Constitution of India.P Vaidyanathan Iyer: What is the status on the Lokayukta? Are you looking at a revised ordinance or bill?As per the Lokayukta Act, the Lokayukta cannot be given reappointment in any manner — in the public sector, private sector, cooperative sector. But somehow the will of the legislators was to give reappointment. What is reflected in the amendment was that the term can be renewed. In my opinion, renewal can be done only when somebody holds office. Once somebody has remitted the office, renewal cannot be done, so reappointment is not possible. So, the amendment is not valid. Then, what is the way out? Amend the act within the framework of the Constitution and the law of the land. That is why that file was returned, because there is no legal provision for it. The legislators’ intention was not reflected in the way the amendment was made. Now, it has not come back to me. So, I cannot comment on that. Once the amendment is done, the situation will be different.Monojit Majumdar: The friction between the office of the governor and elected governments, especially Opposition governments, is historical. Do you feel there is an overall shrinking of space for disagreement in Indian politics?Democracy is an evolutionary process. As we evolve, new problems may come and new solutions will also come. So, I don’t think there is anything strange or disturbing. Conflict of interest has always been there in any growing society. From the conflict, a balance should emerge. The quality of the balance is what determines the strength of society. I see the death throes of an old order and the birth of pangs of a new one in the so-called conflicts.Sudhakar Jagdish: Panchayat elections are to be held. Will you take a preemptive action regarding the deployment of Central forces, considering the violent rural elections that have taken place in West Bengal earlier?I would not use the word preemptive, I would prefer the word proactive. All proactive steps will certainly be taken. In an event of an election, particularly panchayat elections, where millions are involved, a conscientious administrator should look at four points: intelligence, preparation for action, action and mopping up. Intelligence — get all information about the goings on in the field. Check if the ecosystem permits people to come and vote freely and if there are any disturbing forces working from behind. Preparation for action — law and order have to be maintained. I can’t say whether Central forces will come or not… Action is on the day for voting. There should be freedom for everyone to come and exercise their vote without fear or favour. Then mopping up — if there are a few conflicts and skirmishes, these are all part of democracy. Steps should be taken for that also. This four-fold approach will be taken and whatever decisions are required, it will be proactively taken.Liz Mathew: The BJP state leadership seems to be upset with the way you are functioning. Have you addressed their concerns?I have interacted with all political parties and non-political groups there. I listen to them. Whatever is possible from the part of the governor, I try to do it without delay… Criticism is good and improves you. I’m very hopeful that if winter comes, spring cannot be far behind.Vijay Jha: In today’s political environment, how relevant is the post of the governor?The post of the governor has relevance… The nominated governorship’s role and relevance were defined in the Constitution… The governor has the right to be consulted, the right to be informed and the right to intervene… governors are also given discretionary powers. These are to be used very sparingly, to uphold the Constitution and to clear a constitutional backlog. The governor still has relevance as a friend, philosopher and guide to the elected government.Sudhakar Jagdish: But when the governor takes on a bipartisan role, don’t you think this argument of scrapping the whole governor’s office gains strength?Canadian statesman Lester B Pearson said, ‘It’s easy to frame a constitution but difficult to make it work.’ That is the fate of the constitution where democracy is there. I think there is a silver lining. I’m sure institutional ownership will improve. Whether a governor stands by truth or not, is for posterity to decide.Avishek G Dastidar: In your meetings with the chief minister, have you exchanged gifts?She gifted me a lot of goodwill. I gifted her a lot of understanding.Avishek G Dastidar: Since you’re living in Kolkata, how is your life there? What do you like about Bengalis?What I love most about Bengal is that it’s full of Bengalis… Calcutta is a city with a soul. People are very accommodating, sentimental, emotional and friendly. There is a larger humanity which pervades it.Monojit Majumdar: Is there one figure from either Kerala or West Bengal who guides you in the way you conduct yourself?That one and only figure is Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose.Kaushik Das Gupta: You spoke about democracy as an evolutionary process. What do you think would be the challenges of the governor in this new order?The designation of the governor itself is intriguing. The governor does not govern. He’s like the Speaker. The Speaker does not speak. That’s the beauty of democracy. I don’t think I feel any special challenge this position… It’s an evolutionary process.Vandita Mishra: How would you define this new order that you are saying is going to be born?There is a growing feeling among the entire world that democracy can deliver only if there is good governance. We must be able to put in place systems of good governance and ensure that these systems will work. That is going to be the biggest challenge, not only for India but for any nation. I’m sure that Indian initiatives and good governance are widely noted by the world. Other democratic countries are following suit, particularly our insistence on inclusiveness in every sphere. I’m not saying that everything is perfect here, but the process has started. India is becoming a perfect democracy. The way of the world, in the future, is the Indian way. I feel proud that democracy has come of age. It has been tried, tested and found to be effective. We know how to do mid-course correction.Liz Mathew: There is growing criticism about the way Indian democracy functions, regarding freedom to dissent and speak, in every sphere of life. Do you see any point in that criticism?So long as the Indian press is assertive, democracy will flourish in this country. As Joseph Pulitzer said, ‘Our republic and its press will rise or fall together.’ This applies to all republics. The independence of the media is very important and Indian democracy protects that, the Constitution protects that, and the courts are there. There are sufficient checks and balances in a democracy. Dissent is the essence of democracy. There may be aberrations here and there because we are a growing democracy… I think, freedom of expression and democracy are safe in the hands of the vibrant and vigilant media.Liz Mathew: Unlike in the past, Raj Bhavans have become a hub of activities. What is the purpose of this?The Raj Bhavan is meant to be a neutral centre for encouraging the cultural and social life of the state. There is nothing which prevents it from becoming accessible to the people. We are going to make the Bengal Raj Bhavan more people-friendly. The process of dignified decolonisations is already taking place. We know that the Raj Bhavan represented the conquerors and intruders. We do not want to obliterate history, but democratic India has no need to glorify those who acted against the interests of this nation. Raj Bhavan should be jan bhavan.
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